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Filtering by user: Gentoo
Friday, September 22, 2023
[01:27:19] Gentoo ertz, It's cheaper to buy fish from Maryland
[01:28:02] Gentoo At least greentext properly.
[01:28:44] Gentoo I'll revise that; they think it's cheaper to buy fish from Maryland.
[01:29:37] Gentoo It's like 48/48/4 actually.
[01:30:10] Gentoo There's a 4/96 chance that the house wins completely if I remember correctly
[01:32:16] Gentoo >die as you gassed yourself isn't on stepping on the accelerator
[01:32:19] Gentoo *instead
[01:33:07] Gentoo I've done a 4 wheel drift in a Hilux - it doesn't go well.
[01:33:36] Gentoo Nice proprietary software.
[01:33:56] Gentoo Gentoo doesn't ship proprietary software out of the box at least.
[01:34:49] Gentoo Yes, it's easy too install proprietary software and then you sink as you lost your freedom.
[01:36:34] Gentoo Yes, Linux is Linux and Linux is only a kernel.
[01:36:45] Gentoo There is no system but GNU and Linux is only one of its kernels.
[01:38:05] Gentoo 'Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info. " - Linus Torvalds
[01:39:03] Gentoo adsr_, For Linux to even boot, you need systemd (or another init): https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/init/main.c#n1493
[01:40:28] Gentoo adsr_, Go anything to refute my interjection?
[01:43:36] Gentoo Linux a specific name of a kernel, so it is an extreme confusion to refer to software that's not Linux as "Linux".
[01:43:52] Gentoo Unix was and still is proprietary software, so its principles are kind of meh.
[01:44:01] Gentoo GNU
[01:44:02] Gentoo '
[01:44:05] Gentoo s Not Unix
[01:44:52] Gentoo So you want to run proprietary A&AT software?
[01:46:15] Gentoo You can get an old copy of Unix and a copy of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Travel_(video_game)?useskin=monobook if you really want, but why would you do that?
[01:47:03] Gentoo GNU Linux-libre is specifically 100% free software and not certainly "open source".
[01:47:08] Gentoo *certainly not
[01:47:22] Gentoo Not all, but most.
[01:48:53] Gentoo adsr_, Linux isn't even source-available in some parts. I'll get a link to the proprietary software once I answer a question
[01:49:03] Gentoo !bang
[01:50:36] Gentoo tankashilla, Since "open source" is a development model and also a 3rd party certification. GNU Linux-libre was written to be free software and not under the "open source" development model: https://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/ Sure the "open source initiative" may certify Linux-libre to be "open source", that is a grave insult.
[01:51:19] Gentoo adsr_, If Linux is "open source", explain this proprietary software without source code available: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/arch/powerpc/platforms/8xx/micropatch.c
[01:52:07] Gentoo "This material is licensed to you strictly for use in conjunction with the use of COPS LocalTalk adapters." - looks very "open source" to me.
[01:52:24] Gentoo "The firmware this driver downloads into the Localtalk card is a separate program and is not GPL'd source code"
[01:52:47] Gentoo They write "firmware", but they really just mean peripheral software.
[01:53:13] Gentoo adsr_, Care to refuse my solid evidence that Linux is proprietary software?
[01:54:27] Gentoo tankashilla, Free software definition: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html#four-freedoms
[01:55:11] Gentoo The natural meaning of "open source" is indeed source-available, but the "Open Source Definition" is here: https://opensource.org/osd/ (clownflared and proprietary JavaScript)
[01:55:49] Gentoo Most "open source" supporters have never heard of the definition for some reason.
[01:57:09] Gentoo The "open source definition" was derived from the Debian Free Software Guidelines, which was in turn derived from the free software definition. It mostly applies to the same software, but it is a lot looser and can be gamed easily.
[01:57:19] Gentoo rms wrote an excellent article on the topic: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html
[01:57:36] Gentoo I would recommend writing source-available if that's the intended meaning.
[01:58:03] Gentoo :3
[02:00:47] Gentoo I'm not butthurt, but I'm extremely dissapointed that people go around using free correctly and then turn around and say that "free of charge" is the only possible meaning of free.
[02:01:22] Gentoo Thankfully libre software is interchangeable with free software.
[02:03:41] Gentoo From the start it has meant something similar to "unrestricted". People have applied the concept of something having zero price as being unrestricted, even though the price of a physical thing is never 0.
[02:04:21] Gentoo I say gratis to mean zero price, but I haven't come across many things with an actual zero price.
[02:05:30] Gentoo I don't really like the concept of freeware myself, so I generally would refer to that as gratis, proprietary software.
[02:06:10] Gentoo !bang
[02:06:37] Gentoo Gratis is a word in dictionaries since before 1913 to mean unambiguously 0 price.
[02:07:20] Gentoo "gratiis out of favor or kindness, without recompense, for nothing, fr. gratia favor. See {Grace.}] For nothing; without fee or recompense; freely; gratuitously"
[02:09:16] Gentoo I tend to avoid using proprietary software, even if it is gratis.
[02:09:28] Gentoo I don't really care about price, I care about freedom.
[02:10:31] Gentoo Free software is usually available gratis as the work has already been done or paid for and achieved the goals of the author(s), so the improvements are usually then shared for the rest of the community to enjoy without restriction.
[02:13:17] Gentoo I generally avoid playing proprietary software games too, as I can fully enjoy free software games.
[02:14:23] Gentoo It might die in a year or two then, as HDD's last 5 years of total runtime on average.
[02:16:15] Gentoo Everything is really a disaster in computing because few people have even heard of the existence of GNU and why it was written.
[02:17:14] Gentoo tankashilla, I'm willing to go all the way.
[02:19:20] Gentoo My nick is Gentoo because I use and like free versions of Gentoo.
[02:20:20] Gentoo tankashilla, I have GNUbooted KGPE-D16,'s running 100% free software provided by me. The proprietary software left over is in the GPU VBIOS and SSD, but I didn't provide that and I will immediately replace it once feasible.
[02:21:01] Gentoo The stage3 archive is free, but the package repo contains lots of proprietary software.
[02:21:55] Gentoo While installing it, you need to adjust ACCEPT_LICENSE to not include "open source certified" licenses and install Linux-libre and then you get a free version of Gentoo.
[02:22:53] Gentoo esjay, Proprietary software doesn't make like enjoyable, as it just doesn't work properly most of the time.
[02:23:32] Gentoo Freedom is more important than functionality, but most proprietary software is extremely bad at actually working.
[02:25:01] Gentoo Sure, but when it comes to the failure rate of GNU software, as studies have show, it's extremely reliable.
[02:25:15] Gentoo esjay, If you want to spend 40 hours instead of 2 patching, sure.
[02:26:31] Gentoo It depends entirely on the type of bug.
[02:26:51] Gentoo Some bugs require rewriting half the software to fix them.
[02:27:35] Gentoo It's kind of a waste of time to make a fix if it's illegal to do so and sharing your fix can't be done legally.'
[02:28:50] Gentoo The difficulty depends on the type of bug. Some are pretty much impossible to fix from the binary even with the best decompiler.
[02:28:53] Gentoo tankashilla, Nonfree network services are a separate topic and raise separate issues. I'm dissapointed that most internet routers and webservers run proprietary software, but I'll still use them as long as they route packets and serve HTTP correctly.
[02:29:04] Gentoo ^
[02:31:00] Gentoo My web server and switch run free software of course.
[02:32:58] Gentoo tankashilla, youtube is best avoided, even though googles servers run mostly free software (google actually did some research into making their servers run 100% free software for security, but they realised that the ME and PSP prevented that) but it's fine to you use it as long as you use invidios or mpv+yt-dlp (you get a better experience using either too).
[02:33:31] Gentoo Yes, I previously had an ISP modem/router with bridge mode that didn't work, so I had to use double NAT with my own router.
[02:34:08] Gentoo Intel Management Engine. AMD Platform "Security" Processor
[02:35:03] Gentoo KVM chips are kind of a different thing, although the Intel ME doesn't have KVM features.
[02:35:44] Gentoo The newer setup has a glowbox sitting in the curb, with a reverse-powering box that has a 8P8C port and I just need to hardcode an IP address and use VLAN 100 and it works, so I don't really care.
[02:37:00] Gentoo tankashilla, Unfortunately, most intel hardware made after 2008 won't even boot without proprietary ME software. me_cleaner can strip down the modules to the bare minimum and allegedly make the ME hang after boot, but you still need some of it to boot.
[02:37:40] Gentoo wez, Aarch64 chipsets have "TrustZone", which the PSP is built around, but for the most part you can avoid using that.
[02:38:06] Gentoo tankashilla, Sure, but it's still proprietary and you're prevented from replacing it by a RSA2048 signature.
[02:38:29] Gentoo I prefer Intel Core 2 duo, where the ME software can simply not be included, like on my GNUbooted thinkpad.
[02:39:10] Gentoo The KGPE-D16 is good in that it supports fast 16 core CPUs that don't have the PSP or require microcode updates to be stable.
[02:40:16] Gentoo wez, It's proprietary software that can't easily be checked and it's cryptographically impossible to escape. Such software is likely a frontdoor.
[02:41:05] Gentoo It seems the NSA specifically asked intel to add the HAP bit so the ME could be disabled after boot for a reason.
[02:41:51] Gentoo Yep, it's a small x86 CPU on the substrate which can remotely boot the computer, wipe the OS and install another one.
[02:42:12] Gentoo Convenient management features, but an extremely security and freedom risk.
[02:43:07] Gentoo Intel employs such good programmers that there was a bug that allowed an attacker to access the management web interface as admin simply by sending an empty password field.
[02:44:43] Gentoo The ME runs a cut down version of MINIX, as MINIX is under a pushover license. The developer even helped Intel make a version that uses the smallest amount of memory without telling him.
[02:45:24] Gentoo The developer only realised that his software was powering billions of proprietary backdoors years later and he was proud of that instead of being ashamed.
[02:48:57] Gentoo wez, Any AMD64 intel CPU made after 2008 has the ME and there's a management engine tool that can check if management features are active. It's not so easy on AMD, but it seems any AMD64 CPU after 2015 has it.
[02:49:23] Gentoo The NSA doesn't even need to bother with smartphones, such features come built in.
[02:50:05] Gentoo wez, People have sued the NSA for legally spying on its citizens, but the courts either refuse to hear the case or refuse all the evidence citing government secrets.
[02:51:42] Gentoo tankashilla, It depends on the mobile. Older ones give DMA to the mobile chipset, so it can do anything. Newer ones have IOMMU for the mobile chipset, but none of those have ever been audited.
[02:52:07] Gentoo esjay, They do have them, they seethe because they can't admit to having them and have to come up with other evidence.
[02:52:13] Gentoo !bang
[02:52:16] Gentoo !reload
[02:53:27] Gentoo tankashilla, The thing with firmware is that it previously meant CPU instructions in ROM - such wasn't as soft as software as ROM can't be reprogrammed, such wasn't as hard as hardware, as one could cut out the ROM chip and solder on a different one or an EEPROM - so such is firm.
[02:54:43] Gentoo Hardware manufacturers have taken to calling their software that they can replace, but they don't want you replacing as "firmware", but it's really software and it could trivially be replaced if the manufacturer wasn't preventing that.
[02:55:25] Gentoo esjay, Mobile chipsets have backdoors by design, so they can just use those backdoors rather than having to ask the manufacturer to do so.
[02:56:15] Gentoo On certain chipsets and SIM cards, all you need to do is to serve some Java encrypted with a static 3DES key and either the chipset or the SIM card will run that software without checking anything.
[02:57:14] Gentoo GSM didn't even authenticate the tower, so a stingray was trivial. LTE is just a bit harder to stingray
[02:57:43] Gentoo Rather than use proper encryption protocols for voice and SMS channels, intentionally broken ones keep being used.
[02:58:03] Gentoo MMS messages pretty much use unencrypted HTTP even.
[02:59:25] Gentoo Pretty much all mobile chipsets will rat out your location as well when asked, although that can be easily determined from the towers via trilitteration.
[02:59:52] Gentoo Now that is chucked.
[03:01:11] Gentoo tankashilla, That's pretty much because there's no form of authentication for phone calls or SMS really. There's an optional field for adding the caller phone number, but you can just set no caller ID or add whatever number you want.
[03:01:33] Gentoo That reminds me of the NSA worker with millions of dick pics.
[03:02:54] Gentoo "Have an image of my neo freerunner if you want" is probably the only proper response to such government request.
[03:03:33] Gentoo tankashilla, Well, you just need to check the database of customers and phone numbers that the phone companies keep pretty much.
[03:03:47] Gentoo Too bad I can't use a neo freerunner as GSM was shut down years ago.
[03:04:24] Gentoo I don't see what rocket testing requires surrendering breast pictures.
[03:04:28] Gentoo *why
[03:05:08] Gentoo Threat actors wouldn't be so dumb to do their glower acts on the main phone.
[03:05:21] Gentoo It's pretty much pointless domination tactics.
[03:06:27] Gentoo tankashilla, Ehh, it's not really that hard for the service provider to determine who the user is just based on location and which other phones it goes near.
[03:07:20] Gentoo If the phone stays a x house address most nights and is in close proximity to y phones, it can be deduced where one lives and the family members.
[03:09:24] Gentoo Sure, but all it takes is a few soldiers with their name in the database and the other members of the regiment can be quickly determined and compared against the solder records.
[03:09:44] Gentoo All it takes is a few rats to identify the rest very accurately.
[03:10:38] Gentoo Tracking devices are specifically designed to identify and spy on people after all.
[07:01:13] Gentoo !bang
[07:01:15] Gentoo !reload
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