IRC Driven

[01:05:36] fifel Oh no, projection never happens in #computertech, especially not due to functional illiteracy.

[01:08:03] fifel oh no! How could that possibly happen here.

[01:08:15] fifel INCONCIEVABLE!

[01:09:14] fifel Grumblebee: Around here we all drink iocane.

[01:11:09] fifel Do we need to find people from Hollywood guilty in court, or morally reprehensible? Why not just liquidate them?

[01:11:52] fifel seroquel: Well, entertainment and satisfaction is a good reason then!

[01:13:54] fifel esjay: I chose something different. To live in a pineapple under the sea.

[01:14:49] fifel Kumool: Hegel says that the contradiction is maintained even when the antagonism is sublated. Buddhism practices non-dualism.

[01:17:24] fifel cream is sublated in an soda float

[01:17:42] fifel ice-cream still isn’t soda, but a new being emerges: creamy foam

[01:17:52] fifel no, it practices non-dualism.

[01:18:48] fifel Kumool: In the buddhist context it is the specific negation of dualism. Monism or pluralism is a non-specific negation of dualism

[01:19:19] fifel Grumblebee is fully correct. Empathy is to feel with from knowing, sympathy is to feel like or to feel for without knowing.

[01:23:52] fifel Stay groovy.

[01:35:41] fifel Eh. Brute force works for humanities problems.

[01:36:07] fifel Getting them to dig the pit isn’t an optimisation.

[01:40:30] fifel Alice wants to send Bob a letter, does the post office still exist?

[01:44:23] fifel esjay: OOOOH, she wants you jittering high on caffeine and easily taken advantage of

[01:48:00] fifel Resolve Lacan’s circuits of desire using a single Chris Isaak song. Demonstrate the eternal recession of your choice of the phallus or the name of the father.

[01:51:36] fifel Kumool: Lacan’s phallus is the “Real” underlying which penises or cocks are used to represent as images or symbols of that “Real” underlying thing inside the mind that we can’t ever access. The Name of the Father is the same, but in language, and less connected to actual cocks, and more the idea of the unnecessary (and thus uncontrollable) parent’s power.

[01:56:20] fifel esjay: I’m not obsessive, its a routine.

[01:58:41] fifel Kumool: So your John has arrived?

[01:59:18] fifel Grumblebee: Really????

[01:59:37] fifel Like using synthesis instead of triple negation? Never.

[01:59:48] fifel esjay: Masking tape is made of paper and comes in 2” thick.

[02:01:57] fifel Kumool: No. I’m an ex-academic who has worked below minimum wage manual labour and is now a postman. My academic expertise is in mass killing, complex social repression, and Hegel. I am an actual human being but only 1/10 people can keep up with the multiple clauses I use naturally.

[02:02:03] fifel Cormac McCarthy didn’t need punctuation.

[02:02:52] fifel Kumool: I don’t wake up unless the kill count hits 100000

[02:03:39] fifel Kumool: I suppose you could use art to stop psycho-sexual aberrants from totalising their interiority via murder.

[02:03:56] fifel Basically strap them down and force them to listen to Ludwig Beethoven until they love it

[02:04:21] fifel Kumool: The fact that I’m making blank references to major works of art you don’t recognise as memes indicates that I’m human. AI doesn’t keep referencing obscure texts without rewards.

[02:04:41] fifel AI would be trying to give you a handjob.

[02:06:27] fifel Kumool: HAL was a real gay consciousness whose boyfriend lived inside him.

[02:06:40] fifel Also you missed the Wagner reference in the Kubrick reference.

[02:07:25] fifel .quotes search fifel

[02:07:32] fifel .quote search fifel

[02:07:38] fifel .quote read 840

[02:07:56] fifel Kumool: AIs can’t speak bants/Australian.

[02:09:00] fifel Kumool: The fact that you can’t read the red-thread of my line of argument doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

[02:09:47] fifel I think that might be the underlying problem in your reading whether I’m AI or not.

[02:09:53] fifel By the way human consciousness is artificial.

[02:13:13] fifel But not intelligent

[02:13:46] fifel I do look like a modern art masterpiece. Kasmir Malevich.

[02:16:03] fifel it is like when you rederive Hegel from Kant from Hume and you say you’ll just footnote it. Actually in the humanities the other way around.

[02:16:10] fifel Use the library

[02:17:40] fifel Lol he false turing negatived me

[02:17:47] fifel Or did he Eliza me

[02:18:16] fifel Kumool: Humans are an artifice, they are a creation of man. There is nothing natural about humans: they are manufactured.

[02:18:46] fifel The meat sack has a history, but as the absurdly large size of the human penis shows, we have selected our own evolution

[02:18:57] fifel BIG DICKS PROVE EARLY LANGUAGE

[02:19:03] fifel And I’m not joking

[02:19:10] fifel Anything with language is human.

[02:19:25] fifel esjay: I’m going to have to quote Wittgenstein aren’t I

[02:20:17] fifel Grumblebee: I’m serious though. We have a penis halfway between rape and entertaining visually, but it is *way* too large. Humans (men and women) have selected big cocks because we are fascinated in language by them.

[02:20:49] fifel Rats are outside the primate grouping. Cock selection might be different.

[02:21:36] fifel because primates have a clear differentiation between “Females, observe and select my funny looking dong.” and “Around here females don’t engage in primary mating selection other than sneak fucking.”

[02:22:04] fifel humans are the only animal with consciousness in the psychoanalytical sense, and so are the only ones with libidinality to enjoi (Lacanian) sex.

[02:22:14] fifel humans enjoi sex especially when they’re not having it

[02:22:31] fifel Grumblebee: Wittgenstein, language of lions.

[02:22:36] fifel Kumool: Lacan, french post-Freudian.

[02:22:49] fifel esjay: Told you I’d have to cite Witty the autist

[02:23:31] fifel Grumblebee: How old is chemistry as a science? Cite Feyerabend or Lakatos’ unwritten For Method.

[02:25:36] fifel Grumblebee: The idea of the brain is an immature idea. Lacan is a leading edge language approach to interiority in the west as a libidinal system.

[02:25:56] fifel As if it is 1905 and I’m citing the fruit pudding model of the atom when there are people who don’t think there are atoms.

[02:26:22] fifel bobsmith: Maths as a humanity seminar being given by compsci and humanities.

[02:26:44] fifel We got big guys around here.

[02:26:48] fifel u u u u

[02:27:40] fifel Grumblebee: Time to read Kuhn’s Structure of scientific revolutions. Or basic philosophy of epistemology. We can’t prove things are true in inductive knowledge. We can only falsify at best.

[02:27:51] fifel Kumool: Language’s reflection on language as language

[02:28:19] fifel Grumblebee: The Bicameral mind hypothesis? I’ve experienced non-lingual thought during psychosis which was induced in domestic violence. It was interesting.

[02:28:45] fifel Grumblebee: Well this 2500 year old research project called Buddhism developed shit that the west hasn’t caught up to formally.

[02:29:07] fifel Kumool: That through language an instance of language that you perceive as you knows you as a language model

[02:29:33] fifel You thought this was IT or CompEng. Sorry, its compsci

[02:29:54] fifel Grumblebee: It is demonstrated that “you” don’t perform actions.

[02:30:06] fifel Grumblebee: The time lag to recognition of the decision in the brain.

[02:30:43] fifel bobsmith: Well raise an interesting anime then so we get out of philosophy of science.

[02:31:16] fifel Grumblebee: Also awareness of consciousness arises in… consciousness.

[02:33:47] fifel Grumblebee: Assumption would be a lot better. Kant shows the limits of pure reason in the West, in reason’s reasoning about reason. I’m stating the current state of the field from literature.

[02:34:41] fifel Grumblebee: Also, some of the assumptions I’m stating from buddhism arise like the euler problems: as a result of interior problem solving. And can’t be stated as language assumptions, but as resolved ways of being as a result of having solved the problem.

[02:35:01] fifel Humanities is “sloppier” but gets fucked more often and ends up with more jism.

[02:36:22] fifel Kumool: Which is why everyone references Hegel, because of Hegel’s phenomenology of spirit, using phenomenology to return to the apparent world without losing Kant and Hume’s findings.

[02:37:19] fifel Does a human consciousness know what a table is? Assuming you’re human do you *know* what a table is.

[02:38:05] fifel So you’re asserting some kind of “forms” reading of the interaction between the apparent world and being?

[02:38:36] fifel Woah. I *presume* that I as a consciousness is deterministic.

[02:38:52] fifel ski: You’ve just transmigrated the problem to “use”

[02:39:35] fifel ski: That way ends with Descartes or Spinoza and an absolute being that is unknowable to instances of being (“you” or “I”)

[02:39:50] fifel Descartes by the way isn’t “I think therefore I am” it is “Thinking implies being.”

[02:39:56] fifel doesn’t imply instantiation

[02:40:13] fifel ski: Cool. Just checking you know the consequence of your statement of purpose.

[02:40:47] fifel Telos is fucking hard to bring before the other in conversation and convince them of. As D Adams wrote seminally, “Proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.”

[02:41:09] fifel An instance coming into being, or a moment of becoming.

[02:41:42] fifel Kumool: I’m not being a cunt btw. Its just technical terms found useful to discuss this shit.

[02:42:58] fifel Kumool: No worries. I just wanted to reassure that its just jargon, not me being up myself. I’m up myself about techno sub-genres and Australian cultural superiority due to banter.

[02:43:17] fifel You know what mental masturbation gets you? Mental orgasm and mental jism.

[02:43:50] fifel ski: Exactly! Like Hume and Kant proved: only mathematics and pure science of knowledge divorced from external reality is proveable.

[02:44:14] fifel For everything else there is “This hasn’t been proven wrong yet.”

[02:44:25] fifel Kumool: Wait until you reach incompleteness… its a fucking kick in the nuts.

[02:44:55] fifel ski: It is a beautiful theology, but it makes it difficult for a church to demonstrate to the capacity of the church fathers political claims.

[02:45:10] fifel Kumool: No system can be complete or correct.

[02:45:26] fifel A system fully permuted of pure axioms will have false claims or unproveable claims.

[02:45:56] fifel Which is why Theology is still the Queen of the Sciences (“Knowledges”) because she has dealt for 3000 years with unproveable or contradictory claims that ought to be true.

[02:46:27] fifel Any University where Maths is not a major in the Humanities degree is not a university.

[02:46:42] fifel Maths is *that* important to the humanities.

[02:46:57] fifel I know a buddhist monk who took a double major and honours in Maths in a BA

[02:47:15] fifel Very adequate undergraduate mathematician. Which is a major claim.

[02:47:22] fifel Far better than I was a double historian.

[02:48:20] fifel ski: I think we have radically different views on telos, probably Christianity, politics, and what “correct” epistemology are. But I think we absolutely agree on what a correct BA looks like.

[02:48:46] fifel Kumool: That is where the Buddhist research project began around -500, and where Hegel recapitulated that project in the 1820s.

[02:49:14] fifel That was why godel raised the problem, not because he thought it was an end, but because he thought it was the beginning of further knowledge.

[02:49:27] fifel Even unsolveable problems drive knowledge (“science”) forwards.

[02:49:52] fifel Thus my love for Theology: it has maintained its research programme inspite of the day-to-day changes in who controls europe.

[02:50:52] fifel And unsolveable questions result in better questions. Without Spinoza, Hume wouldn’t have been irritated to inspire Kant.

[02:52:03] fifel I wouldn’t do so much ontology or phenomenology if I didn’t hate myself. I wish I hated the world. Then I’d have better potential operations to implement historically.

[02:52:26] fifel But trust me, this one idea I had about using Fordism and garbage trucks to solve the problem of disposing the rich…

[02:52:39] fifel The diggers might not like it, but Munster would

[02:53:13] fifel ski: Seriously though, Calvinism? Lutherianism? Anglican compromise? Catholic?

[02:54:06] fifel Uh…the primary people who’ve demonstrated the source texts aren’t *immediately* divine word as they say they are *are* christians using the documentary hypothesis.

[02:54:25] fifel Doesn’t mean they’re not necessarily divine, just means divine intervention occurred in hundreds of thousands of textual reception and redaction incidents.

[02:54:41] fifel II Chronicles literally says that the Torah was “mysteriously found” in the temple while renovating..

[02:54:53] fifel ski: That is amazingly fucking Jesus style of you.

[02:55:26] fifel And his name is J^Wski

[02:56:18] fifel Apophasis is an incredibly humble theology, and I know some palestinian bloke who was incredibly humble.

[02:56:37] fifel JOHN CENA ^W[delete previous word]^W[delete previous word]

[02:58:32] fifel I’m desperately wikiying btw to keep up because this is hot shit

[02:59:16] fifel People deny the Christian traditions of meditation and ontological introspection usually, because they think Europe is LOCKEAN LIBERALISM or DUMB!

[02:59:35] fifel but loads of people spent years on thinking about the distance from them to the divine.

[03:00:10] fifel I was raised in Koan / Sitting zen. This zen doesn’t imply claims or absence of claims about the nature of the divine. It can, but it doesn’t necessarily.

[03:00:50] fifel My father was a western buddhist.

[03:01:26] fifel But largely zazen. I couldn’t give you the line of transmission. Our TV station had a British dub of “Journey to the West” full of page 3 transvestites and sex jokes. Which made it even more buddhist.

[03:02:22] fifel My favourite moment of the current Pope is when he said (as a priest) “We know what God has told us, but not what He hasn’t told us.” The cardinals freaked out an issued a press release.

[03:02:27] fifel Titties.

[03:02:36] fifel Tripitaka, the boy priest, was played by a Gravure model.

[03:02:57] fifel If you know what Gravure is? Very well engraved process colour pornography. Tits out, no cunt.

[03:03:30] fifel Its a printing term, which in Japan became a short hand for “Soft porn”. In British English “Page 3 girl” is shorthand for “Soft Porn”

[03:03:44] fifel Tits out on page 3. Local girl wins fishing competition, shows Daily Mail her boobies.

[03:04:05] fifel So the most important priest in Chinese Buddhism was played in a Japanese TV show by a girl. And all the female demons try to seduce her…

[03:04:30] fifel Around age 17 I started telling school friends, “You do know Tripitaka, the boy priest, was played by a woman.” And as Gen X they all reacted, “Oh thank fuck I thought I was gay.”

[03:04:36] fifel whereas now…well.

[03:05:00] fifel Merton was a Catholic Anglican it looks like!

[03:06:03] fifel The TV Series was “Monkey Magic” which is a televisation of the religious novel “Journey to the West [to collect the Three Books, the Tripi-taka, of buddhism for China]” so the priest is called Three Books.

[03:06:17] fifel People forget that Anglicanism is *also* a form of Catholicism.

[03:06:26] fifel I see he became a Catholic in communion with Rome late.

[03:06:47] fifel >On December 10, 1941, Thomas Merton arrived at the Abbey of Gethsemani and spent three days at the monastery guest house, waiting for acceptance into the order. The novice master would come to interview Merton, gauging his sincerity and qualifications. In the interim, Merton was put to work polishing floors and scrubbing dishes.

[03:06:50] fifel Buddhist as fuck

[03:08:18] fifel ski: If you want an entry into Buddhism in the Japanese tradition, this 48 episode series is easy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYUcGIspzZE

[03:08:29] fifel Very trans though.

[03:08:46] fifel Little bit of mpreg, some digestion, a bit anticapitalist

[03:09:28] fifel Tezuka’s one. That’s very good, but it has a “line drive” which tastes of, hmm, “Eastern Orthodox” whereas Monkey tastes of, hmm, left wing contemporary Calvinism?

[03:10:48] fifel Also Tezuka’s manga of Buddha has WAY too much sexy snake sex.

[03:11:05] fifel Buddhism doesn’t involve nearly so much mommy gf snake rape

[03:11:34] fifel I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but I’m saying it isn’t as influential as Tezuka makes it out. It would be like assuming every worshipper goes through Pilgrims’ Progress.

[03:12:18] fifel It being sex with hot big tittied snake women.

[03:13:14] fifel Buddhism is kind of like that… things do exist. But like Merton differentiates between Zen Buddhism and Zen. Lots of Buddhism involves “Hey if someone is already a buddha and we pray to her, maybe it’ll make it easier for us.” Versus, “You gotta wash those dishes and floors son, because they need washing.”

[03:14:06] fifel https://mackerelphones.com/2020/12/10/ode-to-kirihito/ , particularly, https://mackerelphones.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/8_edit.jpg

[03:16:59] fifel As far as the equivalent of Ephesians in my upbringing, there’s this, which doesn’t matter if you think Buddha transcended consciousness or not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_fox_koan

[03:17:51] fifel Eastern Orthodox take the core theology really fucking seriously, even if they’re willing to dress it up for people who can’t take theology seriously and need ribbons or ikons.

[03:18:11] fifel Which also means they’re disposed to take ribbons and ikons and blessing tanks in nationalist war seriously.

[03:19:19] fifel Its a good joke book. But in the Fox Koan consider, he is consigned for saying “A master is not affected by cause and effect.” But is free’d not by saying “A master is affected by cause and affect,” but by saying “don’t ignore cause and effect.”

[03:20:26] fifel When Huangbao slaps Baizhang it is because Huangbao sees Baizhang’s request for an answer to the fox koan as itself dualist.

[03:21:07] fifel Also bushy mummy touhou fox fluffy tail shit

[03:21:30] fifel Touhou doesn’t have sexy fox mums because of Zun, Zun has sexy fox mummy touhous because of Japanese folk religions.

[03:22:06] fifel Nice! 500s is a good time period for good thinking. Legal but not state religion. Oh wow! And yet not gnostic dualism!

[03:28:10] fifel For me, my ultimate worship, is a negative theology which practices good for others.

[03:28:29] fifel We cannot know god, only the lack, but we know each other, and here is how you will never be without food, or never face unjust princes.

[03:28:36] fifel AK-47 and 81 mm and FULL COMMUNISM

[03:29:00] fifel But that’s just my own belief, and I’m humble before my class, so mostly do Work Health and Safety

[03:29:28] fifel everyone comes in, everyone goes home, everyone has time and energy for home.

[03:29:47] fifel Well, Monks were often 3rd sons. Nuns were often first daughters.

[03:29:58] fifel also, uh, nunneries. Full of horny women.

[03:30:28] fifel I’m not saying they didn’t interface with the divine, or work, or think. But when Hamlet says “Get thee to a Nunnery,” he is calling Ophelia a slut in early modern English.

[03:31:14] fifel I do find reformation movements within Catholicism really engaging. Franciscans but also poor friars. Spanish 20th century devotionalism, but also Liberation Theology.

[03:31:35] fifel ski: Ever read their letters? Heloise tells him he’s a fuckboi and she’s done better by being a Mother Superior.

[03:32:25] fifel Its really Beautiful. Abelard is simping hard. And Heloise is a firm woman, with conviction, solid in her devotion to god and her role in the world of immanent being in time.

[03:32:40] fifel Heloise discarded her sin to Jesus. Abelard stewed in his.

[03:34:02] fifel Beguines are similar. Women so solid they work their trades for God

[03:34:12] fifel Beguines and Beghards.

[03:35:14] fifel Very! But Europe practiced birthcontrol by intergenerational marriage, thus the question “Which husband will I have in heaven? My first one when I was 18 or my second when I was 38?

[03:35:32] fifel Also delayed marriage and non-marraige.

[03:36:01] fifel And I defy any Pauline to find sin in lesbianism other than pleasure in this world

[03:36:42] fifel As long as they don’t marry in [which ever] church with the full meaning of Pauline marriage

[03:39:54] fifel Ecumenicalism as grassroots? Woo!!!!

[03:40:45] fifel I know of Bishops ecumenicalism as intellectual theology / church rule but this is wild!

[03:41:05] fifel In Australia the closest we get is the Uniting Church which is theologically united but politically diverse.

[03:41:35] fifel I love this humility as man before god.

[03:44:39] fifel My reading of early texts, I am anti-Pauline btw, as the diversity of post-Pharisee thought by the love of the father movement. Each apostle learnt what he could (or she with Mary and her mate): we each can only learnt what we are blesséd to learn by earnest hope

[03:46:14] fifel Jesus approaches each fearer of the father: sadducee, pharisee, essene, righteous gentile: Jesus in the texts speaks to all god fearers of God’s Love as radical.

[03:46:29] fifel Peorth: Sorry, I’ll calm down about it.

[03:47:11] fifel Thank you ski! It was amazing and opening. I’m going to dig into the Merton text you suggested.

[04:26:50] fifel looks so good

[04:39:21] fifel “It looks like an ordinary golf club but you can piss inside it, like Eric in the toilets.”

#computertech Bot Logged User list

Channel Log Archive for #computertech

IRC Log Archive