IRC Driven

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rdr rdr

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truthwillout truthwillout

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[01:50:01] roku i love mahjong. i love mahjong everybody! i love you mahjong!

[01:53:10] Zathras mahjongg; easy; 2m 17s

[01:53:16] Zathras what's your score?

[01:53:32] & End3r that's the same amsg guy

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roku roku roku

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rdr rdr

[01:59:39] Zathras *shrug*

[01:59:55] & End3r akills are fun

[01:59:59] Zathras what's going on? sorry, new on this network

[02:00:06] + truthwillout Hi End3r and Zathras how are you?

[02:00:36] & End3r tired here

[02:00:39] Zathras seven beers in, I feel like king of the world :P

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[02:01:55] + truthwillout Hello rdr

[02:02:08] Zathras although I am not sure what this channel is about. is it kernel related or any distro based on thatß

[02:02:20] & End3r linux in general

[02:02:33] Zathras so.. any distro

[02:02:36] Zathras right

[02:02:37] Zathras ok

[02:02:40] & End3r yup

[02:02:42] Zathras cool

[02:03:24] Zathras wait, I am not up to date with slang, I meant kewl!

[02:03:34] & End3r we are pretty free to talk about anything in here, but we do not do politics. way too many fights

[02:03:53] Zathras what is politics?

[02:04:02] & End3r good

[02:08:44] rdr linux isn't REAL

[02:08:58] rdr are linux politics allowed

[02:09:11] rdr Debian is holding elections for their leader!

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[02:15:23] * burnout set mode +v rdr

[02:15:25] burnout behave

[02:16:27] + rdr ya burnout

[02:17:47] burnout ;p

[02:19:01] * burnout set mode -M

[02:20:00] brothchild has anyone found ways for LLMs to assist in mundane package maintenance?

[02:20:02] brothchild o/

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truthwillout truthwillout

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roku roku roku roku

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roku roku roku roku

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Zathras Zathras Zathras

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[06:21:50] zer0s are you guys annoyed with the age verification bill?

[06:22:08] howmaso ye

[06:22:20] mlu a bit

[06:22:37] mlu the actual reuqirements are quite light, but the fact that it's a bill is annoying

[06:23:05] zer0s I heard the support is already embedded in systemd and someone has forked it as a result

[06:23:17] howmaso heard of that as well

[06:23:30] howmaso ngl i dont think its gonna be a big deal

[06:23:32] howmaso just lie to the os

[06:24:00] zer0s the problem with legislation is that it never stop

[06:24:02] zer0s *stops

[06:24:21] howmaso cant even argue that

[06:24:30] howmaso argue with*

[06:24:38] * truthwillout is now known as teddy

[06:25:02] * teddy is now known as teddybearsmile

[06:25:26] zer0s this will force a lot of people to use older version of an OS most likely

[06:25:34] zer0s security issues abound

[06:25:48] howmaso windows xp source leaked a while back, and there are legacy patches people make right?

[06:25:57] howmaso although i think youd be better off using linux atp

[06:26:17] zer0s just run windows in vm

[06:26:19] zer0s lol

[06:26:22] howmaso lol

[06:26:34] howmaso thats just called QubesOS

[06:27:02] howmaso this is what i meant by legacy patches btw https://legacyupdate.net/

[06:27:02] % glitchy [url] Legacy Update: Get back online, activate, and install updates on your legacy Windows PC | legacyupdate.net

[06:27:09] zer0s honestly worried about these assholes in california pushing this legislation

[06:27:29] zer0s howmaso: interesting

[06:27:35] mlu as far as I understand, the legislation would just require that the OS has a field for age verification -- probably expose it via dbus or something

[06:27:42] howmaso ngl with the fact that both Apple and Microsoft have an account system it makes me wonder if theyre plotting against us or something. but thats just a theory, A CONSPIRACY THEORY

[06:27:59] howmaso mlu: as for what i know this seems about right

[06:28:13] howmaso and something about an API as well i think, but im not entirely sure

[06:28:38] zer0s systemd already does so much >_>

[06:28:43] mlu as for the accounts: that's how modern companies run -- number of accounts = number of users = the number the performance metrics are based on

[06:28:56] mlu if you simply sell them an OS without having them create an account, you didn't really have a customer

[06:29:10] mlu well, you do need an API and you do need to respect it

[06:29:17] howmaso yeah but you have to enter an age when you make those accounts, so it just makes me wonder if this is some big tech conspiracy to try and stall linux development or something

[06:29:28] howmaso -> THIS IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY, TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT <-

[06:29:34] mlu but I think making that age available via dbus would count; so would making it available via a libc call or something

[06:29:58] zer0s howmaso: eh android installation numbers runs counter to that idea

[06:30:13] mlu if I ran a for-profit software company that had to report to shareholders, I'd be responsible if I didn't take advantage of that bill for evil

[06:31:00] zer0s an api call to a 3rd party verification service at such a low level makes me nervous

[06:31:22] mlu it'd just be the OS itself

[06:31:40] mlu i.e. very much like the required child safety locks on the doors in cars in the US

[06:32:09] zer0s i don't know...systemd is pretty low in the stack

[06:32:44] mlu afaik, it just has to have that capability -- you're not required to necessarily use it

[06:33:08] zer0s that's not going to dissipate my paranoia

[06:33:21] zer0s it sounds like theres just a part 2 coming

[06:33:27] mlu i.e. when you create a user account, you'd probably have a GECOS-like field to input a birthdate, and you could probably put in something neutral like 1/1/1970

[06:33:37] howmaso this reminds me much of that one bill that requires that all 3d printers have something in them to prevent it from printing a gun. because that is TOTALLY enforceable and possible to do

[06:33:43] mlu there's always gonna be a sliding slope

[06:34:07] howmaso the age verification bill is too loose in its terms and leaves much wiggle room for systemd

[06:34:09] howmaso we will be fine

[06:34:18] zer0s mlu: it just seems stupid to only have a date field which isn't tied to an ID

[06:34:30] mlu for actual verification, sure

[06:34:36] howmaso zer0s: open your google account settings i dare you

[06:34:42] zer0s this is incrementalism

[06:34:49] mlu but the purpose of this bill is really to allow parents to prevent children from accessing websites they're not supposed to

[06:35:01] howmaso never in the history of the internet has that ever happened

[06:35:12] zer0s mlu: those people need to learn how to control their own network

[06:35:16] zer0s or not have any kids

[06:35:39] mlu zer0s: not a reasonable or realistic requirement in reality, IMO

[06:35:47] zer0s I know

[06:35:48] zer0s :(

[06:35:57] zer0s but I hate their proposal

[06:36:10] howmaso yeah but what about public computers. the local library near me doesnt really care about what happens on their machines and ive had to yell at them several times about vulns that to this day are not patched

[06:36:17] howmaso children can use public computers

[06:36:22] howmaso or school computers

[06:36:30] mlu and if I had kids and they had the same level of skills as me, I'd need to actually lock up the network cabinet :)

[06:36:43] howmaso lol

[06:36:46] mlu and use enteprise-style MDM on their devices

[06:36:50] howmaso lmao

[06:36:53] zer0s I feel like libraries should all close down at this point or we call them something else. The people in there are almost never reading books

[06:37:01] mlu the premise isn't that unreasonable -- I do that with my guns

[06:37:12] mlu but then agian, the internet doesn't kill people

[06:37:22] zer0s ^

[06:37:45] zer0s well arguably, its spreading radicalism

[06:37:49] zer0s in all forms

[06:38:02] howmaso i used to watch some pretty messed up stuff that i didnt fully understand at the time, and im fine. but idk if thats survivorship bias or not

[06:38:03] mlu you still need to act on that radicalism

[06:38:07] howmaso ^

[06:38:21] zer0s mlu: and people definitely do. seemingly everyday

[06:38:33] howmaso zer0s thats just what the media wants you to think

[06:38:43] howmaso but now im getting schizo

[06:38:58] howmaso take that with a grain of salt

[06:39:28] zer0s the conversation has digressed

[06:39:32] mlu but yeah, locked server rack and secured demarc (for ninternet) -- that should do the job, and it's actually required for PCI-DSS compliance

[06:39:58] mlu it'll be quite tamper-evident if you monitor the rack ;)

[06:40:09] zer0s kids are going to be kids

[06:40:20] zer0s they'll just go to their friends house, or go to the library

[06:40:29] mlu yeah, kid's not picking that medeco lock fast enough, and if he drills it like a normal person, there's gonna be a lot of evidence

[06:40:54] mlu zer0s: I could be an unreasonable parent and never allow them to visit friends or go to the library

[06:41:08] zer0s mlu: not so unreasonable sounding to me

[06:41:09] zer0s lol

[06:41:23] mlu that's how I was generally raised -- I didn't go anywhere without my parents until I was 18

[06:41:25] zer0s "you don't know how to read books, what business do you have at the library?"

[06:41:25] howmaso zer0s or school computers (but at that point youd have a bigger issue) https://cb.whale.x10.mx/docs/get-started/ https://docs.mrchromebox.tech/ etc etc

[06:41:25] % glitchy [url] Get Started | Chromebook Exploit Guide | cb.whale.x10.mx

[06:41:26] % glitchy [url] MrChromebox.tech | docs.mrchromebox.tech

[06:41:49] mlu let's just say: going to college was an interesting experience :P

[06:42:06] zer0s howmaso: honestly chromebooks are nice cheap little boxes waiting for linux to be installed

[06:42:09] mlu I waas one of those who rebelled and went crazy

[06:42:22] howmaso mlu: well well well look whos talking

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[06:42:30] howmaso noooo

[06:42:32] zer0s but chromebooks aren't cheap enough to make me ignore thinkpads

[06:42:38] mlu but I was 18, so I was the one that FAFO'ed :)

[06:43:03] zer0s FAFO should happen more often, especially the last two characters

[06:43:11] howmaso lol

[06:43:30] mlu I found out that I liked energy drinks and didn't like weed

[06:43:43] zer0s uppers not downers

[06:43:44] zer0s lol

[06:43:52] mlu ;)

[06:45:20] zer0s honestly, I think my computing habits would've been better if I was never introduced to a GUI

[06:45:30] zer0s when I was younger I mean

[06:45:37] mlu hehe, what was your first OS?

[06:45:46] * mlu started out with MSDOS 5.0 on his dad's 286

[06:46:03] zer0s DOS? we didn't have the money for anything modern

[06:46:16] zer0s I think by then 95 was out

[06:46:41] zer0s I meant by the time I was a teenager. GUI's ruined my attention span

[06:47:29] zer0s I'm writing to you all from tty

[06:48:13] mlu this was the early 1990s, and my dad's 286 was a used computer from the 80s

[06:48:25] zer0s yeah I had a used computer as well

[06:48:28] mlu I dind't use Linux full-time until 2002-ish

[06:48:45] mlu so I experineced all the Windows 9x days but missed out on XP

[06:48:54] zer0s I didn't use linux full time until I became a dev

[06:49:18] zer0s even when I use my mac, I'm essentially just running linux cli via homebrew

[06:50:13] zer0s *cli apps

[06:50:50] zer0s mlu: what are you running right now, if you don't me asking?

[06:51:05] zer0s hardware and software

[06:52:20] mlu zer0s: Solus on my laptop, Alpine on my home server / bouncer

[06:52:59] mlu my laptop is one of those no-name brand Chinese laptops: Intel N95, 4K screen -- costed me $400

[06:53:09] zer0s ah interesting

[06:53:18] mlu home server is a Raspberry Pi 5 -- it runs nice and silently -- so much better than my first home server

[06:54:29] zer0s my main is a Raspberry Pi Zero 2W (512mb Ram) running rasbian with no window manager

[06:54:35] mlu my first home server (back in 2001) was an AMD K5-II 500MHz /w 256MB RAM and 80GB HDD

[06:54:36] zer0s my laptop is a macbook

[06:54:53] zer0s in 2001?

[06:55:10] mlu I also have a workstation: Theadripper 3960X, 64GB DDR4-3200, 2x RTX2080Ti /w NVLink

[06:55:11] zer0s I think 2000 was when 1ghz was broken right?

[06:55:23] zer0s threadripper lmao

[06:55:25] mlu zer0s: yeah, that was my first home server back in 2001 -- was my old PC from 1998

[06:55:29] mlu approximately

[06:55:47] zer0s I get the feeling your workstation cost a pretty penny

[06:55:57] mlu zer0s: by modern standards, yes

[06:56:11] zer0s ?

[06:56:11] mlu but adjusted for inflation, it costed as much as what the 286 would have costed back in the 80s

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[06:56:19] zer0s ah

[06:56:23] mlu the Threadripper box was just under $5000 in 2019 dollars

[06:56:28] zer0s fuck

[06:56:36] zer0s I dropped my jaw just now

[06:56:57] mlu it was a competition between my (rich) friend and I on if I could build a box for <$5000 that was more powerful than the $20k machine he was eyeing at a systems integrator

[06:57:01] zer0s I can't imagine spending that much on a single computer, but you probably have a good use case

[06:57:14] zer0s geez

[06:57:18] mlu no, I didn't have a good use case: I had extra money lying around, and the spec was: "be unreasonable"

[06:57:23] zer0s lol

[06:57:38] zer0s I'm going to guess the TDP is ridiculous

[06:57:53] zer0s is the linux support at least decent? no driver issues?

[06:58:02] mlu so what was an unreasonably powerful system in 2019? well, the Threadripper 3960X was releasing at that time (I was a launch customer) and I had 2x 2080TI's lying around from 2018 that I preordered for MSRP

[06:58:13] mlu zer0s: these days, it runs excellently

[06:58:18] zer0s nice

[06:58:45] mlu was another story in 2019 -- the Aquantia AQC107 10Gbit NIC had buggy drivers that kept resetting, but that was fixed by 2020-ish

[06:59:10] zer0s its a shame 10Gbit is still uncommon

[06:59:11] mlu the Realtek 2.5GbE chip in that system also needed a modern Linux distro to work, but at least it was rock solid once it did work

[06:59:19] zer0s its so slow by modern standards

[06:59:29] mlu I don't think 10Gbit will ever be common on copper -- the baud rate is just too high

[07:00:11] mlu 1Gbit only needs 125Mbaud, 2.5Gbit only needs 200Mbaud

[07:00:28] zer0s I want 100Gbit to be common :(

[07:00:28] mlu 10Gbit, on the other hand, needs 600Mbaud

[07:00:41] mlu zer0s: it already is common in the fiber world and is in fact already being deprecated

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[07:01:05] mlu zer0s: if you want to play around with 100Gbit gear, you can go on eBay and find optics for $5/ea and NICs for <$30

[07:01:06] zer0s fiber isn't common outside of enterprise

[07:01:27] mlu yep, but even if it was, how are you gonna satruate 100Gbit?

[07:01:41] zer0s I have a server I can definitely flood

[07:01:43] mlu like, you'll need at least PCIe 3.0 x16 to even saturate it

[07:02:15] mlu but the equipment is cheap and plentiful, especialily now that everyone's doing 200Gbit and 400Gbit in the enterprise

[07:02:26] mlu if you have $100, that's enough for your own test link

[07:02:39] zer0s I'm morbidly curious now

[07:02:47] zer0s I didn't see any 100Gbit switches

[07:02:56] mlu zer0s: oh, that's becuase they're really expensive still

[07:03:02] zer0s lol

[07:03:15] mlu zer0s: I only know of one that's under $10000...

[07:03:21] zer0s lmao

[07:03:39] zer0s well thats really what I'm talking about when I talk about wanting 100Gb

[07:03:47] zer0s home network shit

[07:03:53] mlu zer0s: https://mikrotik.com/product/crs812_ddq -- oh hey, this one is cheap -- it's only ~$1500

[07:03:54] % glitchy [url] MikroTik · CRS812 DDQ | mikrotik.com

[07:04:11] zer0s mikrotik!

[07:04:15] mlu zer0s: c'mon, you really think you need more than a few ports? you can just buy a 4x100G NIC and use that as a switch

[07:04:32] mlu zer0s: search for a QSFP28 swtich

[07:05:26] zer0s wow

[07:05:54] zer0s I don't have money to piss away on network gear, I've already spent too much on HDDs

[07:05:59] zer0s but I will bookmark

[07:06:00] zer0s :D

[07:06:13] mlu https://www.ebay.com/itm/116368625501 -- oh hey, this might do it, but your power bill's gonna suck

[07:06:14] % glitchy [url] Juniper QFX10000-30C 30-port 100G QSFP28/24port 40G QSFP+ 6-port/Free&Fast Ship | eBay | www.ebay.com

[07:06:57] mlu zer0s: https://www.ebay.com/itm/336027939301 -- remember, one for each end :)

[07:06:58] % glitchy [url] SPTSBP2CLCSK INTEL 100G-CWDM4 1271-1331NM OPTICAL TRANSCEIVER MODULE | eBay | www.ebay.com

[07:08:50] mlu oh yeah, for context: my usual budget on PCs is usually $500-$1000 -- so that $5000 box was a real aberration, but it was really, really fun -- provided me much more entertainment than a couple first class tickets ever would

[07:09:19] zer0s lol

[07:09:27] mlu got to do a lot of VR, maxed out 3D gaming, mined stuff during the cryptocurrency craze, and these days, it's running some LLM chat bots

[07:09:50] zer0s the mikrotik was promising, it was running arm chips as well, still 70+W draw though lol

[07:10:04] mlu yep

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disabledteddybear disabledteddybear

[07:10:23] mlu fwiw, I like those 4x2.5Gbit + 2x10Gbit switches

[07:10:39] mlu I then have a Mikrotik CRS305 as my spine switch

[07:10:57] zer0s I went overkill on my network switch

[07:11:13] zer0s 5x10Gb

[07:11:15] mlu my 10Gbit stuff is on SFP+ -- single-mode fiber, by the foot, is cheaper than Cat6, and the optics are available for $7/ea

[07:11:26] mlu zer0s: nice, which one did you get?

[07:11:38] zer0s eh the brand sucks, tplink

[07:11:52] zer0s wish I waited and got a mikrotik

[07:11:57] mlu eh, they have decently priced stuff

[07:12:10] zer0s yeah the price was decent

[07:12:18] zer0s I got a used one for like $160?

[07:12:27] mlu heh, the 4x2.5G + 2x10G switch I use is by Yuanlee -- it costed me $40 on Amazon

[07:12:36] mlu now that's s ketch :D

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[07:12:48] zer0s lol

[07:12:52] zer0s that is sketch

[07:12:52] zer0s lol

[07:13:01] zer0s yuanlee XD

[07:13:14] zer0s well its just a switch

[07:13:15] mlu and oh, how did you think I got that Threadripper build for "only" $5000? well, I used OLOy RAM (unheard of at the time) and Sabrent NVMe

[07:13:29] mlu zer0s: you know it's sketch when the box doesn't even have the brand name on it

[07:13:36] zer0s lol

[07:13:49] zer0s only

[07:14:04] mlu https://www.amazon.com/Port-Umanaged-SFP-Compatible-YuanLey/dp/B0C64N2QN -- oh hey, there's a coupon for it now :)

[07:14:04] % glitchy [url] Amazon.com | www.amazon.com

[07:14:12] zer0s sketch ram and nvme. Although sabrent isn't bad

[07:14:25] mlu they werne't know for making NVMes back in 2019

[07:14:29] zer0s yeah

[07:14:41] zer0s they've only recently become slightly more reputable

[07:14:46] zer0s still wouldn't buy them lol

[07:14:48] mlu ASrock had a weird mobo for sale for $450 -- I went with that one

[07:15:00] zer0s ASrock makes excellent mobos

[07:15:14] zer0s I don't make desktop rigs anymore though

[07:15:40] zer0s ffs, my main is 1ghz and 512mb of ram

[07:15:46] mlu when your other options are ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, and a more premium ASRock, the cheaper ASRock looks ghetoo :)

[07:15:59] zer0s ASRock has been solid for a while

[07:16:07] zer0s they debuted as "budget" but still very solid

[07:16:08] mlu but that's like saying an entry-level Ferrari looks ghetto compared to a Bugatti

[07:16:16] zer0s yeah

[07:16:23] zer0s I think its very respectable

[07:16:50] mlu and oh, the PSU -- I got a Rosewill-branded PSU and did some QA myself before installing it :P

[07:16:57] zer0s honestly ASUS and MSI have probably put out more bad products

[07:17:04] zer0s lmao

[07:17:07] zer0s rosewill psu

[07:17:12] zer0s is it at least gold rated?

[07:17:31] zer0s bronze probably

[07:17:32] zer0s lol

[07:17:33] mlu the first case I got for it was a $50 NZXT H510 -- turned out to be a bit too cramped, so I eventaully got a Corsair 540 Air Carbide case

[07:17:48] mlu zer0s: yeah, Rosewill Quark 1200W 80+ Platinum

[07:18:05] zer0s oh platinum, very nice. 1200W at that

[07:18:05] mlu power is expensive in San Francisco, so I don't cheap out on the 80+

[07:18:11] & linux_probe is rosewill even still around?

[07:18:14] mlu it was on sale -- I paid only $119 for it

[07:18:14] zer0s SF is expensive af to begin with

[07:18:23] zer0s linux_probe: yeah, I think newegg carries it

[07:18:33] mlu it's Newegg's store brand

[07:18:40] zer0s ^

[07:18:46] & linux_probe thought they did away with it long ago

[07:18:50] zer0s nope

[07:19:04] zer0s I could be wrong though

[07:19:12] zer0s I haven't bought rosewill in forever

[07:19:16] mlu there was a reason why my friend's systems integrator wanted $20k for a similar system at the time

[07:19:32] mlu the $20k was actually a reasonable price

[07:19:47] zer0s *unreasonable ftfy

[07:19:52] mlu my $5k build? oh noes, I cut more corners than eMachines did at its worse

[07:19:58] zer0s lel

[07:20:10] zer0s asrock and platinum rosewill doesn't sound bad

[07:20:18] zer0s the ram is scary though

[07:20:32] mlu I was like: if it's bad, I'll just get some other RAM

[07:20:38] zer0s lol

[07:21:00] mlu it was on sale for $220 ($110/2x16GB) at the time

[07:21:02] zer0s I mean to be fair, they're probably buying chips from some big name either way and rebranding

[07:21:21] mlu the dies are always made by Corsair, Samsung, or Hynix

[07:21:39] mlu OLOy was actually new at the time

[07:21:57] zer0s chinese ram manufacturers exist now

[07:22:03] mlu the sticks were manufactured by Chunwell

[07:22:08] zer0s they've been pumping out ddr5

[07:22:13] zer0s oh

[07:22:28] zer0s chunwell? lol another name I haven't heard of

[07:22:49] mlu most people would be afraid of stuff going wrong in this build, but I've built several systems in the past, so I was like: yay, fun

[07:23:00] mlu zer0s: some random company in China

[07:23:15] mlu OLOy is literally Yolo spelled backwards and inverted

[07:23:37] mlu to make things worse, they had no website at the time!

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[07:28:17] zer0s lol

[07:28:24] zer0s truly full send build

[07:30:28] mlu maxed out TDP of the box was ~900W

[07:30:56] mlu getting all of it to air cool properly was another challenge -- had an econo-pack of Arctic P12 fans

[07:31:50] mlu I'm just glad computers are a cheap hobby compared to cars or boats

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[16:03:05] howmaso when has it every really been the year of the linux desktop

[16:03:10] howmaso ever*

[16:19:57] & End3r I proclaimed it, so shall it be :P

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[16:30:06] Zathras I hope never

[16:30:20] Zathras it will bring sorrow

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