IRC Driven

[03:12:22] ski login : bleeding, how ?

[03:32:51] ski login : spending .. on IRC ?

[03:36:04] ski login : oh, you mentioned "bleeding" in two different contexts

[03:37:21] ski oh .. i thought you maybe meant face-to-face meat-space interactions

[03:39:28] ski does CT even use mspaint ?

[03:39:58] ski if i want a graphical editor like that, i use DPaint

[03:40:07] ski (DeluxePaint)

[03:40:16] ski (in Amiga emulator)

[03:40:54] ski login : this channel was more, hm .. not sure how i should say it, when TorS was here

[03:41:18] ski NiniGeo2 :)

[03:44:18] ski (i wasn't, precisely, referring to TorS himself (although partly) .. more to the time, when he was here)

[03:45:32] ski he didn't really insult people (at least usually, i think)

[03:45:50] ski .. it just got tired, after a while

[03:45:54] ski mhm

[03:48:33] ski you're not two years, anymore

[03:49:54] ski mhm

[03:50:13] ski is that like those shell unix communities ?

[03:50:21] ski right

[03:50:26] ski than ?

[03:50:46] ski this channel is a bit .. rowdy, at times, i guess

[03:50:53] ski is that bad, or good ?

[03:52:25] ski my first IRC experience, was very positive. helpful, interesting, curious people, eager to discuss various things, and give useful counterpoints

[03:52:37] ski back then, i thought every IRC channel was like that

[03:53:14] ski (i only started branching out, slowly at first, after maybe two-three years)

[03:53:48] ski anyway .. ever since, i've attempted to bring some of that spirit with me, wherever i go, on IRC

[03:54:45] ski that sentence no verb

[03:56:11] ski (btw, i'm no fan of "positive thinking". at least as it seems to be commonly construed)

[03:56:42] ski (i think it quite commonly makes people unhappy, or even miserable)

[03:58:01] ski also .. since that time, i've also come to appreciate people being more strict, sometimes harsh .. although that doesn't come naturally to me, and probably never will

[03:58:40] ski sensitive ?

[03:58:58] ski there are pros and cons to both

[03:59:12] ski best, imho, would be if one could combine the best parts of both

[03:59:33] ski moment

[04:03:39] ski login : check "Tact Filters" (and perhaps "Fanspeak"). also "Crocker's Rules" (and the main statement of Postel's / Robustness principle)

[04:05:22] ski login : for some reason, i appear to have both incoming and outgoing filters (like i guess ComputerTech does, too, yea)

[04:05:46] ski (but see the criticism to Postel's principle, for possible drawbacks to this)

[04:06:46] ski (and yea, MatCat also made a good point)

[04:07:29] ski baconburger

[04:08:03] ski umami

[04:12:13] ski login : anyway, if you take "ordinary" social media (unlike IRC, for the most part), you often have many people showing off a pretty image of their life, so that they appear happy and successful, having interesting lives (because "let's show positive things"). when people see that, and compare that with their knowledge of their own imperfect lives, they feel inadequate, not seldom like they're failures,

[04:12:20] ski thus this form of "positive thinking" can cause unhappiness

[04:12:59] ski login : also, sometimes people shun others who display negative emotion ("better cut out those negative people from your life"). this can be very cruel, sometimes

[04:13:08] ski login : but people construe it like that

[04:13:35] ski like they shouldn't bring up sombre things, because it'll "kill the positive atmosphere"

[04:14:12] ski and so many people learn to become fake, and don't get to air and process their very real problems, often

[04:15:13] ski life isn't all roses. it's important to be able to be able to share, and discuss, negative experiences and emotions, too

[04:17:30] ski Therefore some humans have become only pessimists and others only optimists. On their own, neither will find the way forward.

[04:17:41] ski To do development work with only optimists is actually relatively worthless.

[04:17:55] ski A shallow optimist has few possibilities of finding the way, because as a rule this our optimist has too poorly prepared themselves for their journey, since the motto 'things will be resolved' always will be in force. One cannot always just assume that things will resolve themselves.

[04:18:08] ski 'Things will be resolved' is, as a rule, 'Someone will resolve it', namely the one who sees the need for a solution.

[04:18:41] ski what do you mean by "anti-memes" ?

[04:19:29] ski MatCat : yes. one *also* shouldn't wallow in despair or self-pity, or overprocess problems. one should try to learn what one can, and then try to move on

[04:20:29] ski login : "things do resolve themselves","eventually" -- sometimes they do, yes

[04:21:36] ski well .. don't they have ads for assisted suicide, now ?

[04:21:54] ski "struggling at work ? have you considered killing yourself ? we can help"

[04:23:12] ski login : could be interesting

[04:24:06] ski if underlying problems aren't solved (which may well be likely), probably just new homeless people will be generated by those problems

[04:26:30] ski (and money isn't the core problem, in many cases of homelessness. there are other problems at root, which must be addresssed, to make a dent)

[04:27:31] ski there are homeless people who refuse to sleep in some shelters, because of the rules there

[04:29:30] ski for more mentally ill people, it would possibly be more cost effective to keep them in some kind of institution or caring place (although existing such institutions for sure have a lot of problems, too) .. rather than throwing them out, and then having to pay for them in other ways (or just abandon them)

[04:30:45] ski (problems of bueraucracy/compartmentalization. "it's someone elses problem, not ours", bouncing the responsibility for people between departments or places, not being cost-effective)

[04:35:46] ski login : "other irc communities" -- like ? ones where people tend to be more polite and considerate ? or perhaps something else ?

[04:39:43] ski heya, Kuro-chan :)

[04:42:29] ski (i already ate recently, so therefore i'll only have a small piece)

[04:47:38] ski China has some mega-cities

[04:49:37] ski jump-starting would seem quite fraught with risk, to me

[04:50:12] ski better with incremental, "organic" (i don't really like that term) growth, naturally responding to pressures and resources of and in the environment

[04:51:03] ski .. also, preferably fractal growth, with lots of small mini-centres .. rather than large monocultures of residentials in one place, industrials in another, offices in a third, malls in a fourth, ..

[04:59:08] ski ("Jack Ma" ?)

[05:00:06] ski mhm

[05:01:12] ski they do have that thing with management people comitting suicide, after losing face with some failure though, yes ?

[05:02:43] ski perhaps it's not too common

[05:03:16] ski mm. they also have that thing where they're so polite they don't like to say "no"

[05:03:24] ski (more general cultural thing)

[05:05:50] ski <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3c7CMaYTs#t=1m28s> (and about a minute forward from that)

[05:34:48] ski (apropos japanese girls (now women))

[05:38:04] ski MatCat : cute snek (yours)

[05:43:26] ski login : that retro dance thing seems to change character, a bit, multiple times

[05:45:22] ski dot com bubble ?

[05:49:26] ski login : hm, perhaps at the time of the fifth generation project, then

[05:50:07] ski Prolog is nice

[05:52:15] ski oh, didn't know that

[05:53:16] ski good night, and pleasant dreams :)

[06:06:20] ski minds programmer, in which sense did you have in mind ?

[06:11:03] ski hm, which math blog ? one that's been mentioned, in here ?

[06:11:26] ski any more context ?

[06:12:00] ski oh ..

[06:12:07] ski that was likely me, then, i fear

[06:17:56] ski i guess it was probably one of

[06:17:56] ski <https://xorshammer.com/2016/05/14/the-arithmetic-hierarchy-meets-the-real-world/>,<https://xorshammer.com/2008/08/13/kreisels-no-counterexample-interpretation/>,<https://math.andrej.com/2005/05/16/how-many-is-two/>,<https://math.andrej.com/2008/08/13/intuitionistic-mathematics-for-physics/>,<https://math.andrej.com/2010/03/29/proof-of-negation-and-proof-by-contradiction/>,<https://existentialtype.wordpr

[06:18:02] ski ess.com/2017/03/04/a-proof-by-contradiction-is-not-a-proof-that-derives-a-contradiction/>

[06:26:00] ski "Das ist nicht Mathematik. Das ist Theologie." ("This is not Mathematics. This is Theology.") <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hilbert#Hilbert_solves_Gordan's_Problem> -- response by Paul Gordon to a non-constructive existence proof by David Hilbert (saying something exists, without giving any method for finding it, even in principle)

[06:27:30] ski login : i'd guess it was either the "Arithmetic Hierarchy" one, or the "How many is Two?" one, or perhaps the "Intuitionistic Mathematics for Physics" one, that you had in mind (the others are also related)

[06:31:01] ski "isn't science a bit religious too?" -- to some extent, yes. you have to start from certain dogma, like assuming that the universe follows laws, and is intelligible to humans. or, more generally (and philosophically) speaking, that there is such a thing as objective reality and truth, that there is a truth "out there" to possibly find. also, scientific theories can be seen as a kind of narrative

[06:31:07] ski structures (and there are parallels to e.g. cosmologies in traditional religious conceptions of reality. and, obviously, Big Bang theory plays a similar, religious rôle, for everyday folk in western/modern society, as earlier weltanschaungs did)

[06:31:19] ski login : ah

[06:32:08] ski (yea, i didn't recall exactly which of those i linked before, although i'm pretty sure i linked the hierarchy one, and the physics one. so i just now linked to all related ones i could think of, at the moment)

[06:32:44] ski MatCat : nice :)

[06:33:14] ski oh, misread. Mikoolo ^

[06:33:35] ski MatCat, what's the wood for ?

[06:35:59] ski (oh .. and i had forgotten that it was you i had mentioned those links to. (not that i particularly recalled that i had linked them, before you mentioned it.) but when i recalled (roughly) which link(s) you were after, i still didn't recall much that it was to you)

[06:36:03] ski err, yes

[06:36:25] ski (i guess that message got cut off ?)

[06:36:29] ski MatCat : which ?

[06:36:47] ski nah .. just my episodic memory isn't too great :)

[06:37:13] ski (and we haven't chatted *too* much, for it to stick enough to my memory, yet)

[06:37:36] ski MatCat : i was wondering which message you were responding to, finding it funny :)

[06:38:01] ski not sure i *particularly* like bugs .. but let's see the pics, anyway ?

[06:39:48] ski (i've occasionally had other people come out of the blue, and thank me for explaining or mentioning something to them, maybe a year or a few back, and often i have trouble recalling the particular incident(s) (although sometimes i do recall a bit, after a while), and especially the particular nickname, in case it's not someone i've chatted with either recently, or quite a bit)

[06:40:31] ski that one is quite beautiful, Maven

[06:40:35] ski er, MatCat

[06:41:12] ski yea .. second one looks, hm, well, i guess a little bit more creepy

[06:45:23] ski (hmm, not seeing how you could see "narr structure" there .. the message seems to be just short of `400' characters (excluding nick, server, channel, and command type), while the IRC limit is `512', iirc)

[06:45:30] ski sure

[06:46:39] ski ah .. if one wouldn't know to look there, and didn't pay particular attention, it'd be easy to miss that one

[06:46:54] ski what kind of environment was this found in ? damp forest ?

[06:47:33] ski mhm

[06:53:05] ski .. who will now serve harsh criticisms ?

[06:56:12] ski MatCat : kinda reminds me a little of <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morava_(river)>

[06:56:59] ski hello candy^^

[06:57:44] ski ComputerTech was last in here, about three hours ago

[06:58:40] ski login : i used to frequent (some) Usenet newsgroups. haven't much, in more recent years, although i sometimes check in a bit

[07:00:27] ski Mikoolo : cheery tune :p

[07:03:43] ski well .. yea, there's that :P

[07:06:31] ski any giant sequoias, there ?

[07:09:30] ski mhm

[08:03:52] ski 10:06 ?

[13:00:12] ski Mikoolo : could you please abolish DST then, too ?

[13:29:38] ski not a timezone, Mikoolo

[13:32:53] ski .. in a comic, Scania was being detached from the landmass, because some kind of danish supervillan was using large chains to break it loose, to rejoin it with Denmark (making Barsebäck be a close neighbour to København, iirc)

[13:33:51] ski yea, they aren't. but residentials might complain about blocking scenery

[13:36:01] ski Echo_C : candy^^ was apparently looking for you

[13:37:31] ski hah :D

[13:38:05] ski ya, i just happened to recall i'd seen that, when they just came in now

[14:13:30] ski "The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace, because the sinful mind is hostile to True Editor. It does not submit to True Editor's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by their sinful nature cannot please True Editor."

[14:13:43] ski "The DOCUMENTATIONs We sent before you were no more than mortals whom We inspired with revelations and with writings. Ask the People of the Documentation, if you doubt this. To you We have revealed the Emacs Manual, so that you may proclaim to men what has been revealed to them, and that they may give thought."

[14:27:12] ski better hand out coffein

[19:09:54] ski electric sheep ?

[19:11:15] ski or electric guitars

[19:12:46] ski DickCheney : sure, i've read the comic book version of that

[19:13:12] ski you're a sheep now ?

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