IRC Driven

[03:12:22] ski/rizon login : bleeding, how ?

[03:32:51] ski/rizon login : spending .. on IRC ?

[03:36:04] ski/rizon login : oh, you mentioned "bleeding" in two different contexts

[03:37:21] ski/rizon oh .. i thought you maybe meant face-to-face meat-space interactions

[03:39:28] ski/rizon does CT even use mspaint ?

[03:39:58] ski/rizon if i want a graphical editor like that, i use DPaint

[03:40:07] ski/rizon (DeluxePaint)

[03:40:16] ski/rizon (in Amiga emulator)

[03:40:55] ski/rizon login : this channel was more, hm .. not sure how i should say it, when TorS was here

[03:41:18] ski/rizon NiniGeo2 :)

[03:44:18] ski/rizon (i wasn't, precisely, referring to TorS himself (although partly) .. more to the time, when he was here)

[03:45:32] ski/rizon he didn't really insult people (at least usually, i think)

[03:45:50] ski/rizon .. it just got tired, after a while

[03:45:54] ski/rizon mhm

[03:48:33] ski/rizon you're not two years, anymore

[03:49:55] ski/rizon mhm

[03:50:13] ski/rizon is that like those shell unix communities ?

[03:50:21] ski/rizon right

[03:50:26] ski/rizon than ?

[03:50:46] ski/rizon this channel is a bit .. rowdy, at times, i guess

[03:50:53] ski/rizon is that bad, or good ?

[03:52:25] ski/rizon my first IRC experience, was very positive. helpful, interesting, curious people, eager to discuss various things, and give useful counterpoints

[03:52:38] ski/rizon back then, i thought every IRC channel was like that

[03:53:14] ski/rizon (i only started branching out, slowly at first, after maybe two-three years)

[03:53:48] ski/rizon anyway .. ever since, i've attempted to bring some of that spirit with me, wherever i go, on IRC

[03:54:45] ski/rizon that sentence no verb

[03:56:11] ski/rizon (btw, i'm no fan of "positive thinking". at least as it seems to be commonly construed)

[03:56:42] ski/rizon (i think it quite commonly makes people unhappy, or even miserable)

[03:58:01] ski/rizon also .. since that time, i've also come to appreciate people being more strict, sometimes harsh .. although that doesn't come naturally to me, and probably never will

[03:58:40] ski/rizon sensitive ?

[03:58:58] ski/rizon there are pros and cons to both

[03:59:12] ski/rizon best, imho, would be if one could combine the best parts of both

[03:59:33] ski/rizon moment

[04:03:40] ski/rizon login : check "Tact Filters" (and perhaps "Fanspeak"). also "Crocker's Rules" (and the main statement of Postel's / Robustness principle)

[04:05:22] ski/rizon login : for some reason, i appear to have both incoming and outgoing filters (like i guess ComputerTech does, too, yea)

[04:05:46] ski/rizon (but see the criticism to Postel's principle, for possible drawbacks to this)

[04:06:47] ski/rizon (and yea, MatCat also made a good point)

[04:07:29] ski/rizon baconburger

[04:08:03] ski/rizon umami

[04:12:14] ski/rizon login : anyway, if you take "ordinary" social media (unlike IRC, for the most part), you often have many people showing off a pretty image of their life, so that they appear happy and successful, having interesting lives (because "let's show positive things"). when people see that, and compare that with their knowledge of their own imperfect lives, they feel inadequate, not seldom like they

[04:12:20] ski/rizon thus this form of "positive thinking" can cause unhappiness

[04:12:59] ski/rizon login : also, sometimes people shun others who display negative emotion ("better cut out those negative people from your life"). this can be very cruel, sometimes

[04:13:08] ski/rizon login : but people construe it like that

[04:13:35] ski/rizon like they shouldn't bring up sombre things, because it'll "kill the positive atmosphere"

[04:14:12] ski/rizon and so many people learn to become fake, and don't get to air and process their very real problems, often

[04:15:13] ski/rizon life isn't all roses. it's important to be able to be able to share, and discuss, negative experiences and emotions, too

[04:17:30] ski/rizon Therefore some humans have become only pessimists and others only optimists. On their own, neither will find the way forward.

[04:17:41] ski/rizon To do development work with only optimists is actually relatively worthless.

[04:17:55] ski/rizon A shallow optimist has few possibilities of finding the way, because as a rule this our optimist has too poorly prepared themselves for their journey, since the motto 'things will be resolved' always will be in force. One cannot always just assume that things will resolve themselves.

[04:18:08] ski/rizon 'Things will be resolved' is, as a rule, 'Someone will resolve it', namely the one who sees the need for a solution.

[04:18:41] ski/rizon what do you mean by "anti-memes" ?

[04:19:29] ski/rizon MatCat : yes. one *also* shouldn't wallow in despair or self-pity, or overprocess problems. one should try to learn what one can, and then try to move on

[04:20:29] ski/rizon login : "things do resolve themselves","eventually" -- sometimes they do, yes

[04:21:36] ski/rizon well .. don't they have ads for assisted suicide, now ?

[04:21:54] ski/rizon "struggling at work ? have you considered killing yourself ? we can help"

[04:23:12] ski/rizon login : could be interesting

[04:24:06] ski/rizon if underlying problems aren't solved (which may well be likely), probably just new homeless people will be generated by those problems

[04:26:30] ski/rizon (and money isn't the core problem, in many cases of homelessness. there are other problems at root, which must be addresssed, to make a dent)

[04:27:31] ski/rizon there are homeless people who refuse to sleep in some shelters, because of the rules there

[04:29:30] ski/rizon for more mentally ill people, it would possibly be more cost effective to keep them in some kind of institution or caring place (although existing such institutions for sure have a lot of problems, too) .. rather than throwing them out, and then having to pay for them in other ways (or just abandon them)

[04:30:45] ski/rizon (problems of bueraucracy/compartmentalization. "it's someone elses problem, not ours", bouncing the responsibility for people between departments or places, not being cost-effective)

[04:35:47] ski/rizon login : "other irc communities" -- like ? ones where people tend to be more polite and considerate ? or perhaps something else ?

[04:39:43] ski/rizon heya, Kuro-chan :)

[04:42:29] ski/rizon (i already ate recently, so therefore i'll only have a small piece)

[04:47:39] ski/rizon China has some mega-cities

[04:49:37] ski/rizon jump-starting would seem quite fraught with risk, to me

[04:50:12] ski/rizon better with incremental, "organic" (i don't really like that term) growth, naturally responding to pressures and resources of and in the environment

[04:51:03] ski/rizon .. also, preferably fractal growth, with lots of small mini-centres .. rather than large monocultures of residentials in one place, industrials in another, offices in a third, malls in a fourth, ..

[04:59:09] ski/rizon ("Jack Ma" ?)

[05:00:06] ski/rizon mhm

[05:01:13] ski/rizon they do have that thing with management people comitting suicide, after losing face with some failure though, yes ?

[05:02:44] ski/rizon perhaps it's not too common

[05:03:16] ski/rizon mm. they also have that thing where they're so polite they don't like to say "no"

[05:03:24] ski/rizon (more general cultural thing)

[05:05:50] ski/rizon <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YX3c7CMaYTs#t=1m28s> (and about a minute forward from that)

[05:34:48] ski/rizon (apropos japanese girls (now women))

[05:38:04] ski/rizon MatCat : cute snek (yours)

[05:43:26] ski/rizon login : that retro dance thing seems to change character, a bit, multiple times

[05:45:22] ski/rizon dot com bubble ?

[05:49:26] ski/rizon login : hm, perhaps at the time of the fifth generation project, then

[05:50:07] ski/rizon Prolog is nice

[05:52:15] ski/rizon oh, didn't know that

[05:53:16] ski/rizon good night, and pleasant dreams :)

[06:06:20] ski/rizon minds programmer, in which sense did you have in mind ?

[06:11:03] ski/rizon hm, which math blog ? one that's been mentioned, in here ?

[06:11:26] ski/rizon any more context ?

[06:12:00] ski/rizon oh ..

[06:12:07] ski/rizon that was likely me, then, i fear

[06:17:56] ski/rizon i guess it was probably one of

[06:17:56] ski/rizon <https://xorshammer.com/2016/05/14/the-arithmetic-hierarchy-meets-the-real-world/>,<https://xorshammer.com/2008/08/13/kreisels-no-counterexample-interpretation/>,<https://math.andrej.com/2005/05/16/how-many-is-two/>,<https://math.andrej.com/2008/08/13/intuitionistic-mathematics-for-physics/>,<https://math.andrej.com/2010/03/29/proof-of-negation-and-proof-by-contradiction/>,<https://existent

[06:18:02] ski/rizon ess.com/2017/03/04/a-proof-by-contradiction-is-not-a-proof-that-derives-a-contradiction/>

[06:26:00] ski/rizon "Das ist nicht Mathematik. Das ist Theologie." ("This is not Mathematics. This is Theology.") <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hilbert#Hilbert_solves_Gordan's_Problem> -- response by Paul Gordon to a non-constructive existence proof by David Hilbert (saying something exists, without giving any method for finding it, even in principle)

[06:27:30] ski/rizon login : i'd guess it was either the "Arithmetic Hierarchy" one, or the "How many is Two?" one, or perhaps the "Intuitionistic Mathematics for Physics" one, that you had in mind (the others are also related)

[06:31:01] ski/rizon "isn't science a bit religious too?" -- to some extent, yes. you have to start from certain dogma, like assuming that the universe follows laws, and is intelligible to humans. or, more generally (and philosophically) speaking, that there is such a thing as objective reality and truth, that there is a truth "out there" to possibly find. also, scientific theories can be seen as a kind of narr

[06:31:07] ski/rizon structures (and there are parallels to e.g. cosmologies in traditional religious conceptions of reality. and, obviously, Big Bang theory plays a similar, religious rôle, for everyday folk in western/modern society, as earlier weltanschaungs did)

[06:31:19] ski/rizon login : ah

[06:32:08] ski/rizon (yea, i didn't recall exactly which of those i linked before, although i'm pretty sure i linked the hierarchy one, and the physics one. so i just now linked to all related ones i could think of, at the moment)

[06:32:44] ski/rizon MatCat : nice :)

[06:33:14] ski/rizon oh, misread. Mikoolo ^

[06:33:35] ski/rizon MatCat, what's the wood for ?

[06:35:59] ski/rizon (oh .. and i had forgotten that it was you i had mentioned those links to. (not that i particularly recalled that i had linked them, before you mentioned it.) but when i recalled (roughly) which link(s) you were after, i still didn't recall much that it was to you)

[06:36:03] ski/rizon err, yes

[06:36:25] ski/rizon (i guess that message got cut off ?)

[06:36:29] ski/rizon MatCat : which ?

[06:36:47] ski/rizon nah .. just my episodic memory isn't too great :)

[06:37:13] ski/rizon (and we haven't chatted *too* much, for it to stick enough to my memory, yet)

[06:37:36] ski/rizon MatCat : i was wondering which message you were responding to, finding it funny :)

[06:38:01] ski/rizon not sure i *particularly* like bugs .. but let's see the pics, anyway ?

[06:39:48] ski/rizon (i've occasionally had other people come out of the blue, and thank me for explaining or mentioning something to them, maybe a year or a few back, and often i have trouble recalling the particular incident(s) (although sometimes i do recall a bit, after a while), and especially the particular nickname, in case it's not someone i've chatted with either recently, or quite a bit)

[06:40:31] ski/rizon that one is quite beautiful, Maven

[06:40:35] ski/rizon er, MatCat

[06:41:12] ski/rizon yea .. second one looks, hm, well, i guess a little bit more creepy

[06:45:23] ski/rizon (hmm, not seeing how you could see "narr structure" there .. the message seems to be just short of `400' characters (excluding nick, server, channel, and command type), while the IRC limit is `512', iirc)

[06:45:30] ski/rizon sure

[06:46:39] ski/rizon ah .. if one wouldn't know to look there, and didn't pay particular attention, it'd be easy to miss that one

[06:46:54] ski/rizon what kind of environment was this found in ? damp forest ?

[06:47:33] ski/rizon mhm

[06:53:05] ski/rizon .. who will now serve harsh criticisms ?

[06:56:12] ski/rizon MatCat : kinda reminds me a little of <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morava_(river)>

[06:56:59] ski/rizon hello candy^^

[06:57:44] ski/rizon ComputerTech was last in here, about three hours ago

[06:58:40] ski/rizon login : i used to frequent (some) Usenet newsgroups. haven't much, in more recent years, although i sometimes check in a bit

[07:00:27] ski/rizon Mikoolo : cheery tune :p

[07:03:43] ski/rizon well .. yea, there's that :P

[07:06:31] ski/rizon any giant sequoias, there ?

[07:09:30] ski/rizon mhm

[08:03:52] ski/rizon 10:06 ?

[13:00:12] ski/rizon Mikoolo : could you please abolish DST then, too ?

[13:29:38] ski/rizon not a timezone, Mikoolo

[13:32:53] ski/rizon .. in a comic, Scania was being detached from the landmass, because some kind of danish supervillan was using large chains to break it loose, to rejoin it with Denmark (making Barsebäck be a close neighbour to København, iirc)

[13:33:51] ski/rizon yea, they aren't. but residentials might complain about blocking scenery

[13:36:01] ski/rizon Echo_C : candy^^ was apparently looking for you

[13:37:31] ski/rizon hah :D

[13:38:05] ski/rizon ya, i just happened to recall i'd seen that, when they just came in now

[14:13:30] ski/rizon "The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace, because the sinful mind is hostile to True Editor. It does not submit to True Editor's law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by their sinful nature cannot please True Editor."

[14:13:43] ski/rizon "The DOCUMENTATIONs We sent before you were no more than mortals whom We inspired with revelations and with writings. Ask the People of the Documentation, if you doubt this. To you We have revealed the Emacs Manual, so that you may proclaim to men what has been revealed to them, and that they may give thought."

[14:27:12] ski/rizon better hand out coffein

[19:09:54] ski/rizon electric sheep ?

[19:11:15] ski/rizon or electric guitars

[19:12:46] ski/rizon DickCheney : sure, i've read the comic book version of that

[19:13:12] ski/rizon you're a sheep now ?

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