IRC Driven

[00:23:37] login you wanted to be a father?

[00:34:36] login Have you registered TheFatherMind as an international trademark?

[00:34:52] login It doesn't cost much if you use the Madrid Convention

[00:36:02] login Your wife is TheMotherMind then?

[00:36:32] login The second one or the trademark?

[00:36:42] login You have a logo on your home page too

[00:36:58] login Maybe add a description of it as well

[00:38:09] login i don't have your basic auth credentials, so did not see your wife and you on that page

[00:42:22] login nice phogto

[00:42:44] login 10 kids would mean more than one woman, right?

[00:43:12] login Otherwise it would take 30 years, assuming a cap of 2 years in between

[00:43:16] login each

[07:22:17] login So, is the number of children more than the number of sex partners?

[09:33:52] login TheFatherMind: maybe you bought bitcoin early

[09:34:17] login to be able to raise 10 children well

[22:20:56] login TheFatherMind: not body count but progeny count

[22:21:53] login If you had 1 each with 3 women, the fertility ratio is 0.75*2

[22:22:16] login Because you need 4 kids for four parents

[22:22:55] login have you put your dna in ancestry.com or similar?

[22:25:12] login you know, the retirement system is dependent on exponential population growth

[22:26:00] login if that fails to hold, the wealth will fail to buy i.e. price of retirement care will grow faster than GDP

[22:27:45] login You'll have to be okay with imported service/care labour

[22:36:57] login so everyone reproducing below population replacement rate will have extra money saved over to bid on their peers' kids to care for them in old age

[22:37:24] login While the peers who are having kids will spend a lot of time and money raising those kids, but then will have less money left over to bid on their own kids to care of them

[22:37:42] login And the kids will have to choose between foregoing money and fulfiling any obligations they feel towards their parents

[22:38:05] login or, taking the money and serving the not-enough-children moneyed

[22:38:14] login i.e., the parents who did the right thing get screwed in old age

[22:38:36] login The solution is either (1) taking wealth away from old people now and putting it in the hands of parents

[22:38:54] login (2) a long-term loan for parenting expenses to be paid off by the kid in their adult working life

[22:39:23] login (2) is similar to (1) except it uses money supply inflation instead of a transfer

[22:39:49] login or (3) taxing non-parents and subsidising parents

[22:40:32] login the non-parents may pay their 'children's welfare tax' by asking their own parents, i.e., old people, for a handout

[22:41:04] login TheFatherMind: if you become wealthy through some insanely lucky investment, you may find some more kids asking for support

[22:41:22] login they may be your lost sibling's kids rather than your own, too

[22:41:28] login *lost siblings'

[22:41:56] login Do you think all your DNA descendents should get a piece of that trust?

[22:43:15] login Your daughter is saving the world

[22:43:25] login But you know the game

[22:43:45] login Her peers who go childless or below-replacement-rate and invest that money

[22:44:01] login will bid for her children to care of them over her in their old age

[22:44:33] login And, if you fund your daughter's children, you're subsiding the retirement of the childless

[22:45:07] login i.e., all the childless peers of your daughter are screwing you and partying

[22:45:37] login while you and your daughter are funding their retirement care through your daughter's children

[22:45:45] login Isn't it a shameful thing?

[22:46:19] login No wonder people are so secretive about their number of sex partners, and whether they'll have children or not

[22:46:28] login It's taboo to ask or talk about either

[22:46:38] login Same with money

[22:47:05] login TheFatherMind: Why not put some performance plan for your daughter and her children

[22:47:14] login and make payment contingent on hitting those targets

[22:47:32] login i.e., good grades, you can write a test for what they should know and be able to do

[22:47:42] login and administer it to your grandchildren

[22:47:58] login Have them learn a musical instrument or to sing, or athletics etc.

[22:48:23] login She'll be needing some taking care of in her old age too

[22:48:43] login Is she spawning her caretakers?

[22:49:10] login or, if she's going to be asking someone else's kids to do that for her, will she be adding new progeny to make up for that to the pool of future workers?

[22:49:58] login The robots will get dexterous enough to satisfy your wife's care needs

[22:50:48] login And the companies making those robots will probably have the highest enterprise value in history

[22:51:19] login If pregnancy is such an issue, commercial surrogacy is legal in the US

[22:52:00] login And I think in the future there will be a new profession - professional parenting

[22:52:29] login Current foster parents are not fit for purpose, but maybe there are some really skilled parenting experts

[22:52:42] login Of course, all of this costs money

[22:53:06] login And, a surrogate bearing your child means she isn't bearing her own in that 9-12 month period

[22:53:22] login so it's an opportunity cost to her to be your wife's surrogate

[22:53:59] login The same is true of nannies/professional parents, who would be spending time raising your wife's children instead of their own or someone else's

[22:54:51] login TheFatherMind: maybe after you've lived a wonderful life and she's your current age, she can do a thing by finding someone half her age

[22:55:30] login That young man will be taking care of her then, and he can find someone half his age when he's your age

[22:56:01] login It works out as long as someone else is pumping out new people to marry generation after generation

[22:56:04] login so it's the same problem

[22:57:18] login Eventually, your wife's new husband's new wife will have to settle for an african or peruvian husband

[22:57:55] login Her family = parents and siblings or children and siblings' children?

[22:58:47] login The main question is, who will build the house and who will rent the house when there just aren't enough people to build the house this year or enough rental demand

[22:59:06] login She may have to pay an exhorbitant price for the house to be built in a reasonable timeframe

[22:59:18] login unless it'll be robot built

[23:00:06] login Maybe instead of a house she'll have to buy a part of a datacentre and earn rent from AIs hiring computational resources from that datacentre

[23:00:49] login Or buy the stock of the robot company to earn some dividends from it

[23:01:20] login to then pay the robots of that very company to do services for her

[23:01:34] login like giving her a haircut or cleaning the house

[23:02:21] login Or, if we're talking futuristic, it'll be a crypto token that gives her a discount on the robot's usual rate

[23:02:54] login Not yet

[23:03:28] login But aren't there Indonesian women such as your wife who want no children?

[23:03:49] login There will be more as Indonesian women start outearning Indonesian men

[23:04:11] login The threat was never in the 'there won't be enough'

[23:04:13] login directino

[23:04:34] login It was more in the 'there will be too many to feed' direction, which never came to pass because of the green revolution and fertilisers

[23:05:03] login The food is not the problem

[23:05:16] login It's that if the population starts declining, there will be fewer doctors and teachers

[23:05:22] login so the quality of the people left over will decline too

[23:06:01] login if one were to extrapolate to the population being the same as in historical times, there will be such few people that all technological process will be 'lost knowledge'

[23:06:35] login More than half the people need to have more than 2 for it to be solved

[23:06:43] login to make up for the ones having 0-1

[23:07:08] login Half the people = men, the other half = women

[23:07:19] login If you want more than half the people to have children, some men will have to start giving birth

[23:07:39] login i.e., all the women will have to have 2, or some will have to have 3 for others to have less than 2

[23:08:01] login And, research has found that one needs to have 5 for the family line to still be around 100 years later

[23:08:27] login just because of the historical prevalence of those who want 0-1 child

[23:08:47] login I have asked every woman around me semi-casually what their plan for children is

[23:09:00] login The answer I get is, "my husband and i have decided to have no children"

[23:09:10] login or "i will be happy with my babies, i.e., cats"

[23:09:18] login or "i haven't thought about that"

[23:09:34] login It's like saying the GDP is too high

[23:10:01] login Or 'the world is too comfortable'

[23:11:20] login The only reason it feels like there are too many people is because extracting resources from ores isn't economical enough due to energy constraints on purification of bad-quality ores

[23:11:41] login We've solved the issue in food by converting nitrogen in the atmosphere into fertiliser

[23:11:50] login i.e., urea

[23:12:27] login The natural version would be the nitrogen cycle, but we've been able to increase the rate of nitrogen fixation using energy

[23:12:40] login It's the same with water purification using desalination plants

[23:13:10] login The only missing piece is capturing the sun's energy over a wider area and buffering it for 24-48 hours using a battery or other method

[23:13:26] login Maybe even intercontinental HVDC lines just like internet submarine cables

[23:14:01] login That way, the sunlit part of the Earth can transmit power to the dark part

[23:14:41] login Cheap energy will make all the other cycles fast enough to not be an impediment to human population growth

[23:14:59] login The ultimate source of energy, actually entropy, is the sun

[23:15:26] login New material gets deposited to the Earth via meteorites, but otherwise it's just all recycled via natural and artificial processes

[23:16:09] login isn't that because cities are densely populated?

[23:17:10] login more people = more brains instead of soil + plants

[23:17:24] login i'd say that's a positive

[23:17:35] login Maybe some of them will make life even more comfortable

[23:17:58] login Or be very entertaining

[23:19:00] login Fewer people is a danger because none of the economic models take that into account

[23:19:26] login Imagine chronic job shortages, accelerating increases in price

[23:19:35] login higher taxation due to the erosion of the tax base (in absolute terms)

[23:20:03] login Just a winding back of extreme human talent and skill

[23:20:36] login Slower athletes, fewer new movie stars, fewer of everything

[23:21:00] login House prices will crash

[23:21:14] login Abandoned towns

[23:21:44] login Crumbling infrastucture, because who wants to be pouring concrete and doing construction

[23:21:57] login The US is already facing a mild version of this

[23:22:19] login I'd be pretty sad to see the pinnacle of human endeavour behind us

[23:22:45] login And you know, it's Africa, Israel and Afghanistan that is having a lot of kids

[23:22:57] login So they'll be moving into the now emptier cities

[23:23:22] login i.e., Western culture will be dead and fundamentalist culture will take over

[23:23:47] login Unless you can convince the Afghan, African and Israeli kids to give their own culture up and adopt Western culture

[23:23:59] login At which point their fertility rate will start going down too

[23:24:33] login There must be a way to have a liberal culture but also not below-replacement fertility

[23:24:44] login Or maybe liberal people have conservative parents

[23:24:59] login because liberal parents don't have children

[23:25:15] login So Western culture will have to regenerate itself in the children of fundamentalists

[23:25:37] login Another alternative is that cloning will be liberalised

[23:25:48] login And people will just clone themselves in a pod or something

[23:26:06] login And raise their cloned children to take over their role

[23:26:33] login a billionaire will have 1000x the clones of a millionaire (just going by linear ratio of net worth

[23:26:52] login a real power-law distribution of genes instead of the current natural mixing

[23:27:05] login A Children-of-Men scenario

[23:27:20] login (the movie)

#computertech Bot Logged User list

Channel Log Archive for #computertech

IRC Log Archive